In this episode, Sam sits down with Jordan Chernev, Platform Engineering Ambassador and long-time engineering leader. They unpack what actually changes when you lead a platform organization, and why the toughest problems are often non-technical: explaining platform value to the business, building a product operating model, and hiring people who genuinely care about their internal customers.

Jordan also shares a practical playbook for teams who don’t yet have a dedicated platform product manager: how to run discovery alongside delivery, how to make prioritization transparent, and how to use the RICE framework (Reach, Impact, Confidence, Effort) to align stakeholders and drive trust.

They close with one of the most important (and underrated) topics in platform leadership: how to hire platform engineers, not just for technical skill, but for platform empathy, on-call ownership, avoiding “us vs them,” and the curiosity that keeps teams evolving (especially in the AI era).

In this episode:

The biggest differences between leading platform engineering vs “regular” engineering

Why platform teams struggle to prove value to non-technical stakeholders

Do you need a dedicated platform product manager — and what to do if you can’t get one yet

The product operating model: discovery + delivery in parallel

RICE prioritization for platform teams (and how to apply it in the real world)

How to justify a platform PM hire using bottlenecks, risk, and multiplier impact

When platform engineering starts to make sense (and the “~100 developers” inflection point)

Hiring platform engineers: reliability mindset, on-call ownership, and inheriting imperfect code

The differentiator: platform empathy vs “us vs them” anti-patterns

Why curiosity is the trait that compounds (especially with AI changing how teams work)

If you’re a platform leader, platform PM, or building an internal developer platform, this one is a blueprint for scaling the practice beyond tooling.